How Does Intermittent Fasting Affect Carb Loading?

It’s time to look at another Skribit question and give a quick answer. The question I’m answering today is:
Every other day fasting and its impact on how often to “carb load” when on a ketogenic diet.
I’m going to go ahead and acknowledge that I don’t carb load, so my answer isn’t from an “insider’s perspective”. My version of a carb load entails adding in a sweet potato after one of my more grueling workouts, but beyond that, I figure that my normal carbohydrate intake will refill my muscles before the next rough workout. But this question is obviously on quite a few people’s minds as it has 82 votes (or one person is voting over and over again if that’s possible).
Just for information’s sake, let’s look at the three main versions of the standard carb load.(1) The original carb load was developed by Gunvar Ahlborg, a Swedish scientist, in 1967. His theory was to deplete the glycogen (the body’s stored form of carbohydrate) stores prior to the carb load, starting about a week before the event with three days of low carbohydrate intake (about 10% of total calories). Then the next three days was a carbohydrate intake of about 90% of calories with a reduction in exercise intensity.
In the 80s, a modified regimen was developed, eliminating the depletion phase and increasing carbohydrates to 70% of intake for three days, also with decreased training. This is the most popular regimen today. Finally, a new regimen has been developed by scientists at the University of Western Australia. This regimen calls for normal diet and light training until the day before the race with a very short, very intense workout and 12g of carbohydrtae per kilogram of lean mass for 24 hours.
So how do the two factors of Alternate Day Fasting and a very low-carb diet affect the need for carb loading? For starters, I’m not sure what level of carbohydrate intake the submitter is referring to, but “ketogenic” makes me think we’re probably looking at 10% of calories from carbs, give or take. Now, the Alternate Day Fast is probably going to cause a depletion in liver glycogen just from general bodily functions throughout the day. But the muscles should stay relatively well-fueled since the glycogen stored in the muscles is only available to the muscles.
Activity level has a big impact on how often you need to “carb up”. Someone hammering away at the CrossFit Workout of the Day everyday has a higher need for carbs than someone following a standard split-routine of “3 sets, 8-12 reps, chest and triceps”. A sprinter has a higher need for carbs than a distance runner, contrary to what conventional wisdom would have you believe. As a rule, the higher the intensity of the effort, the more you’re tapping into muscle glycogen for fuel rather than fat.
The length of time between your glycogen-intensive workouts is also going to play a role. If you have an intense workout everyday, aside from likely living your life on the border on overtraining, you’re probably going to need to eat a good bit of carbs everyday, which makes the ketogenic aspect difficult to achieve. If you’re on a more reasonable training schedule, you’re probably hitting very intense workouts a couple times a week with days of pure strength work and days of pure skill work. For this type of schedule, I’d look at adding in the carbs after the intense sessions to maximize storage, along with some protein, and then count on carb intake on the days in between intense sessions to top up the reserves.
As in the discussion of portion sizes, the answer is “it depends.” You have to look at the types of activity you engage in, their intensity levels, and their frequency. Further, I’m betting that the fewer carbs you eat on a daily basis, the higher your need for carb loading to keep yourself fueled. And I’m sure this goes without saying, but I’m going to say it anyway. You need to eat high-quality foods as much as possible. Sweet potatoes, squashes, and fruits are better for upping your carb intake than resorting to grains of various sorts. Just remember that fructose is shuttled through the liver first, so isn’t great for refilling muscle glycogen.
Finally, just for fun, let’s look at just how much glycogen the body can store. The liver will hold about 100g, give or take. The muscles then hold another 200-400g, depending on your muscularity. So you’re looking at an average of, say, 1500 calories of fuel stored in the form of glycogen. With an effective carb load, you can increase that to perhaps 2500 calories of stored glycogen. Running and cycling burn glycogen at a rate of 600-800 calories per hour.(2) Looking at that, just how much need to you have for carbing up? I’m going to say that unless you’re doing extreme distances or training at a very high level, you probably don’t need to.
As I said, I am not one to intentionally carb load, so this is probably not the answer you were looking for. My daily carb intake is around 100g, after counting out fiber, totaling about 15% of my calories. Given my brief look at it, I now turn it over to you guys to discuss and hash about. Does anyone else have any other ideas or insights?
Source:
(1) Carbohydrate loading
(2) Bonk
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Filed in Intermittent Fasting, Other 8 Comments so far
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Skyler Tanner on 27 May 2008 at 10:52 am #
Scott,
I know that when I started IF’ing I saw a drastic increase in insulin sensitivity, thus allowing for less carbs to feel “alert.” I’ve seen discussion that IF’ing MIGHT be akin to what one is attempting to do with an Ultimate Diet 2.0-type of depletion/reloading scheme. If this is true (and evidence is small at this point, mostly speculation based on other research), carb loading is increased by a small margin.
Best,
Skyler
Steve A on 27 May 2008 at 1:54 pm #
Scott you pretty much touched on it, but my opinion is that unless you are a professional/Olympic athlete you probably don’t need to be carb loading.
Jo on 27 May 2008 at 11:14 pm #
Don’t forget the study that showed insulin resistance increased from IF, bearing in mind the subjects carbed up in 300grams of simple carbs after the all-day fasting. This says to me that fasting and then carbing up might not be a good idea for increasing insulin sensitivity.
Eugene Thong on 28 May 2008 at 7:56 am #
Scott,
Interesting perspective - I’m with you on this one. A main criticism about ketogenic diets is that “they’re not well suited for competitive athletes.” And then you have guys like Steve Maxwell, who told me that he eats about 80% meat, 20% plant-manner, and IFs from time to time, and outlasts guys half his age on the mats.
Then again, he may just be a superior athlete, period.
FWIW, I’ve found that by not strictly following a ketogenic diet and ingesting about 100-120g of carbs a day improved my recovery from weight training and Brazilian Jiujitsu immensely.
Jo,
I think Dr. Eades touched upon this research (and at least one other study) on his blog and concluded that it’s worse for folks who are fat-adapted (read: low-carbing) to indulge in carb-loading.
Greg Davis on 28 May 2008 at 8:57 am #
Nice pic, did you pull that one from the family album?
Scott Kustes on 28 May 2008 at 9:12 am #
Steve A, you got it. That’s where I was going with that, though I didn’t get quite that explicit. I shouldn’t beat around the bush, so I’ll say it too. If you aren’t a professional/Olympic-level athlete, you don’t need to carb load.
Eugene, I’m not sure if my diet is quite ketogenic, but it is much lower carb than typically advised, about 15% of ~3000 calories/day. Yet I’m able to hit all of my workouts with intensity. I do think an elite level sprinter or gymnast or marathoner or anyone else training with high intensity daily, possibly twice a day, is going to need a bit higher intake of carbs.
Greg, Google Images.
Cheers
Scott
Lukman on 28 May 2008 at 1:43 pm #
Scott,
Charles Poliquin has recommendations for those that:
(a) strength train; and
(b) have body fat levels greater than 10% (men) or 15-20% (women)–what Charles considers “fat” (which most would agree is harsh)
His recommendations for supplementation for the following population is nonetheless interesting nonetheless because he believes it to replenish muscle glycogen, but WITHOUT the implementation of carbohydrates. Here’s the recommendation:
Whey Isolate (15 g/50 lbs bodyweight) + Glutamine (.33 g/kg bodyweight) + Glycine 20 g + Arginine 3 g
Not to make this a Poliquin love-fest, but here are more of Charles’s recommendations about carbohydrate consumption. I post this because he’s in-sync with you, Professor De Vany, and others on this issue. Here they are:
1. Elimate grains, particularly wheat. This is the most important principle regarding carb intake. Wheat influences blood sugar levels the same way as plain table sugar.
2. Yes, eliminate grains, part II: Gliadin family grains such as oats, wheat, spelt are the most common food allergen. People of the Celtic ancestry, like the Irish, are more likely to be gluten allergic. Besides raising insulin levels in the body and their rapid carb intake, grains also release cortisol in response to the stressor, than a food allergen is.
3. The main source of carbs should be fibrous. Fibrous carbs typically have very low carb content. Their inherent high fiber brings about a very moderate insulin response, thus making them an ideal fat loss food. The best sources of fibrous carbs include :
Broccoli
Lettuce
Cabbage
Cauliflower
Mushrooms
Green beans
Onions
Asparagus
Cucumber
Spinach
All forms of peppers
Zucchini
Cauliflower
4. The darker the fruit, the better it is for you. Dark fruits tend to have very thin skin, (hence they need to produce more anti-oxidants to protect themselves from the sun). That is why darker fruits are great anti-inflammatory foods. Bananas have thick skins therefore they have lower anti-oxidants contents.
5. The darker the fruit, the better it is for you, part II. The darker the fruit, the lower the glycemic load. Again, compare berries, and cherries to bananas and pineapple. Of course, this applies to fruits in their natural state; when grapes become raisins, their glycemic index goes up because of dehydration of the fruit.
6. Replace grains with greens in sandwiches. This one is promoted by Jonny Bowden, author Living The Low Carb Life: Instead of using bread, use dark leafy greens to wrap the meat. It will slow down the glycemic index and help shift in your favor the acid/alkaline base.
7. Limit fructose intake. Even though fruits are great foods loaded with nutrients, they also contain fructose. Fructose in too high quantities can slow down thyroid function and increase glycation. Glycation in layman’s term is browning, like the browning that makes crust in bread. Glycation is the cross linking of proteins (and DNA molecules) caused by sugar aldehydes reacting with the amino acids on the protein molecule and creating Advance Glycosylation End-products (AGE’s). If you want to see protein cross linking in action, cut an apple in half and watch it turn yellow! Very few people realize that glucose can go through oxidation. Why is the worst glycation agent fructose? Because it does not raise insulin. In other words, the insulin is not getting it into muscle cells. Therefore, it lingers around and wreaks metabolic havoc. As nutrition expert Robert Crayhon would say: fructose is like the guest that won’t go home once the party is over. Crayhon recommends that the average American should eat no more than 5-10 grams of fructose a day! For very active individuals, 20 grams of fructose should be the maximum intake.
One of the worst sources of glycating fructose are the weight loss bars containing high fructose corn syrup, like the ones sold by a famous Texan verbally abusive lawyer turned weight loss guru.
To check for glycation levels, ask your doctor to measure the concentration of glycated hemoglobin in your blood. In England, a study revealed that this is one of the best measured tests able to predict mortality. Far better than cholesterol, blood pressure and body mass index.
8. (Keep in mind this is for those that are not “fat” according to Charles) The best time to load up in carbs is the first 10 minutes following your workout. Since insulin sensitivity is at its highest after the workout, this is the time to take in your carbs to maximize muscle mass gains. Originally based on the research that was available at the time, I typically recommended 2 g/Kg of bodyweight. Over the years, after being exposed to more research and discussing it with my colleagues, I have come to the conclusion that it should be a reflection of the training volume for the training session. The greater the number of reps per training unit, the greater the carbohydrate intake. Of course, one can assume that all reps are equal. A squatting or deadlifting rep is more demanding than a curling or triceps extension rep. By the same token, 3 reps slow tempo squats has different caloric demand than 3 reps in the power clean. As a general rule, I would recommend the following carbohydrate intake based on training volume for a given workout:
12-72 reps per workout : 0.6 g/Kg/LBM
73-200 reps per workout : 0.8 g/kg/LBM
200-360 reps per workout : 1.0 g/kg/LBM
360-450 reps per workout : 1.2 g/kg/LBM
Regarding the source of carbohydrates post-workout, I have experimented with various sources, I like using fruit juices with a high glycemic index (i.e. pineapple, grape) to provide 30-40% of the carbs, the rest of the carbs coming from carb powders ranging from dextrose to various types of malto-dextrin. For variety sake, I will use different types of juice like a berry blend. You can also any type of mushy fruit like bananas or peaches. For seriously underweight athletes, I may use pineapple and/or corn flakes to drive the glycemic index upwards. Instead of using maltodextrin, you can also use dessicated honey.
9. Use insulin sensitivity supplements with high-carb post workout meals. Nutrients like taurine, arginine, magnesium, R-form alpha lipoic acid etc.. will help dispose of glucose to muscle cells instead of fat cells.
10. Add protein to your post-workout carb intake. Using 15 g of protein for every 50 lbs of bodyweight, will increase glycogen storage by as much as 40%.
Carb Loading - On Low Carb? | EUGENIZATION. A Personal Training Blog. on 28 May 2008 at 10:34 pm #
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