Comments on: What I’m Reading: The World Without Us http://www.modernforager.com/blog/2008/02/15/book-review-the-world-without-us/ Respect Your Food. Tue, 07 Oct 2008 00:41:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Scott Kustes http://www.modernforager.com/blog/2008/02/15/book-review-the-world-without-us/#comment-3047 Scott Kustes Mon, 18 Feb 2008 13:00:15 +0000 http://www.modernforager.com/blog/2008/02/15/book-review-the-world-without-us/#comment-3047 Matt, I agree that it was disconcerting that it's our worst things that will stick around, though I don't know that it's all that untrue. Our great architecture\ and works of art are fragile, as is everything in Nature. In fact, it seems that the biggest truth of Nature is that things come into and out of existence. So given that, anything we make that resists the natural breakdown of life is sure to be a bad thing in Mother Nature's eyes. Donny, You're right that Paleo doesn't have to be all meat, all the time. One of the defining features that explorers have found in traditional hunter-gatherer diets is that there's really no defining feature. Some are high-carb, some are low-carb, some are all-meat, some are relatively void of meat. But the main feature is that there are no processed foods. That's the true detriment of the Western diet...food processing. Let's get back to eating bugs. I hear they're quite high in protein. Cheers Scott Matt,
I agree that it was disconcerting that it’s our worst things that will stick around, though I don’t know that it’s all that untrue. Our great architecture\ and works of art are fragile, as is everything in Nature. In fact, it seems that the biggest truth of Nature is that things come into and out of existence. So given that, anything we make that resists the natural breakdown of life is sure to be a bad thing in Mother Nature’s eyes.

Donny,
You’re right that Paleo doesn’t have to be all meat, all the time. One of the defining features that explorers have found in traditional hunter-gatherer diets is that there’s really no defining feature. Some are high-carb, some are low-carb, some are all-meat, some are relatively void of meat. But the main feature is that there are no processed foods. That’s the true detriment of the Western diet…food processing. Let’s get back to eating bugs. I hear they’re quite high in protein.

Cheers
Scott

]]> By: donnyrosart http://www.modernforager.com/blog/2008/02/15/book-review-the-world-without-us/#comment-3009 donnyrosart Sat, 16 Feb 2008 14:01:52 +0000 http://www.modernforager.com/blog/2008/02/15/book-review-the-world-without-us/#comment-3009 I always wonder how many people could be sustained if we switched to bugs and bacteria as mainstays of our diet. Many animals eat bacteria in the form of poop, so it's really not that far out there. I'm sure we'd find a less disgusting form, of course. Also, I don't think paleo needs to be all meat, all the time. A few years ago there was an article going the rounds about a paleo group (I think it was somewhere in the British Islands). They found an enormous mass of a single type of nut shell, along with human remains (I don't remember if the human remains were in the form of bones or tools). The headlines all said "paleolithic man--vegetarian?" and stuff like that, but I don't think they showed any proof that they were vegetarians, they just showed that at certain times these peoples diets are likely to have consisted almostly entirely of nuts. We've all heard the gem about tribes in Africa gorging on nothing but elephant meat if one is killed. Cordain says that man ate two thirds meat as calories and one third plant, and that this should be our guide--but did they eat these on the same days, or drift further toward plant or animal food sources depending on the season? A common criticism of studies advocating the low fat diet is that the higher fat diet they are compared to is usually not particularly low in carbs. This is a valuable argument when used to defend low carb eating, but should this detract from what seems to be shown, again and again--that a low fat diet is healthier than the standard western diet? In rodent studies, both a Dean Ornish style low fat diet and a ketogenic diet have been shown to be protective against heart disease when compared to the western diet. Advocates of both diets claim that they will lower insulin levels when compared to the western diet, and they seem, at least to me, to be justified. A recent study in mice showed that both a diet of 84 percent carb 16 percent protein and a diet of 84 percent fat 16 percent protein slowed tumour growth in mice when compared to a diet of 16 percent protein with half of the rest of calories from fat, and half from carbohydrate. Throw a little intermittent fasting into the mix, and I think it's possible for the world's population to eat a much healthier, more paleo diet. (Sorry if I rambled. This is about as close to on topic as I ever get.) I always wonder how many people could be sustained if we switched to bugs and bacteria as mainstays of our diet. Many animals eat bacteria in the form of poop, so it’s really not that far out there. I’m sure we’d find a less disgusting form, of course.
Also, I don’t think paleo needs to be all meat, all the time. A few years ago there was an article going the rounds about a paleo group (I think it was somewhere in the British Islands). They found an enormous mass of a single type of nut shell, along with human remains (I don’t remember if the human remains were in the form of bones or tools). The headlines all said “paleolithic man–vegetarian?” and stuff like that, but I don’t think they showed any proof that they were vegetarians, they just showed that at certain times these peoples diets are likely to have consisted almostly entirely of nuts. We’ve all heard the gem about tribes in Africa gorging on nothing but elephant meat if one is killed. Cordain says that man ate two thirds meat as calories and one third plant, and that this should be our guide–but did they eat these on the same days, or drift further toward plant or animal food sources depending on the season?
A common criticism of studies advocating the low fat diet is that the higher fat diet they are compared to is usually not particularly low in carbs. This is a valuable argument when used to defend low carb eating, but should this detract from what seems to be shown, again and again–that a low fat diet is healthier than the standard western diet?
In rodent studies, both a Dean Ornish style low fat diet and a ketogenic diet have been shown to be protective against heart disease when compared to the western diet. Advocates of both diets claim that they will lower insulin levels when compared to the western diet, and they seem, at least to me, to be justified. A recent study in mice showed that both a diet of 84 percent carb 16 percent protein and a diet of 84 percent fat 16 percent protein slowed tumour growth in mice when compared to a diet of 16 percent protein with half of the rest of calories from fat, and half from carbohydrate.
Throw a little intermittent fasting into the mix, and I think it’s possible for the world’s population to eat a much healthier, more paleo diet. (Sorry if I rambled. This is about as close to on topic as I ever get.)

]]> By: Matt http://www.modernforager.com/blog/2008/02/15/book-review-the-world-without-us/#comment-2999 Matt Sat, 16 Feb 2008 00:05:20 +0000 http://www.modernforager.com/blog/2008/02/15/book-review-the-world-without-us/#comment-2999 I thought it was a pretty good book. That, despite the fact that the final message was that everything good we have done will be gone pretty quickly, and all the bad stuff we have done will hang around for a million years. I think it makes a good case that the world is overpopulated (though the VHEM is not really a viable alternative!). The only way that eating paleo would be sustainable for everyone, of course, would be if the world population was drastically reduced. I thought it was a pretty good book. That, despite the fact that the final message was that everything good we have done will be gone pretty quickly, and all the bad stuff we have done will hang around for a million years. I think it makes a good case that the world is overpopulated (though the VHEM is not really a viable alternative!). The only way that eating paleo would be sustainable for everyone, of course, would be if the world population was drastically reduced.

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